<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi folks. My contribution (right now, and over time) is going to be small, and more about messages than about technical subjects. I think Bill does make some good arguments, but I'm surprised he/we haven't gone a little further into the subject of "Google fiber cities." I believe a giant corporation did this in a few places as a test bed, and because they anticipated that they couldn't anticipate some of the uses.<div><br></div><div>There are quite a number of Davis residents who, in their day jobs, use giant data sets and high-bandwidth equipment on campus. It's very easy for me to imagine researchers with sufficient bandwidth writing applications so that they can queue up and remotely process samples (or whatever their kind of research derives data from), and then analyze the data at home using the same data sets. And my point is not so much that these people will immediately see what they can do and want to pay for it. Rather, it is that some (many?) will see that there's a huge potential in this kind of connection, beyond their current immediate work tasks, plus "the Internet of things," where major home appliances are updating their firmware, etc. etc.</div><div><br></div><div>I do appreciate that there have to be some practical and near-term benefits. Now that we've started to describe those, the potential for growth and longer-term benefits has me even more interested.<br><div><br><div><div>On Jan 6, 2015, at 8:39 PM, Robert Nickerson wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi<br><br>This is very eloquent, and I'd say pretty damn accurate and succinct argument that could be morphed into a letter and put on the website.<br><br>I have more to add about costs as well when I can at some point in the not too distant future.<br><br>RAN<br><br><br>On 1/6/2015 7:29 PM, Bill Broadley wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">On 01/06/2015 10:49 AM, Shneor Sherman wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Bill, I appreciate your response. However, it does not address the question:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Where is the direct benefit to homeowners? An extra $5000 value to a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">half-million dollar home is inconsequential.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Well it was than $5,200 for a $300k house. The thought of adding $5k or more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(the majority of Davis homes are worth more than $300k) to the value of ones<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">home is a great incentive for registered voters to sign a petition or vote for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the initiative.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For the City of Davis that means more tax revenue per home, and more demand for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Davis homes (assuming surrounding cities don't get GigE networking).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">How many homeowners want to be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">content providers or maintain a website on their own?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Approximately zero. People who are in the Google fiber cities are quite<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">enthusiastic about the service. The vast majority of the stories I've heard as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">just the normal fast internet is great type. Netflix streams at high quality,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">youtube videos start instantly, Amazon prime works great, ability to stream<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">video while not impacting phone calls or video conferences etc.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Also the freedom to buy the channels they want instead of expensive bundles and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the freedom from the pain of:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* buying/maintaining/replacing DVR/VCRs<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* watching whatever they want, whenever they want, even switching between<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> devices<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* ability to watch a season of a favorite show as quickly as they want to.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I suspect very few. If<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">we are talking about schools and libraries, it's far cheaper to provide lines<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">only to those entities.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Certainly, I was just mentioning that hugely improved network infrastructure<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">could lead to improvements in educational opportunities at Davis Schools and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Libraries. Not that these improvements would justify the costs all by themselves.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Generally the higher end users would get very fast network connections (Google<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">does GigE for $70 or so), the most cost conscious would get cheaper/slower<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">connections (Google does 5 mbit for 7 years for $200), and those without paying<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">anything might get better cell coverage (via shared wifi) or be able to use a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wifi device in more areas than they do now.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm pretty sure that this will require an initiative, though the City Council<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">could act on its own. To get votes, voters will have to see direct benefits.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">What might those be?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1) not dealing with hated companies like comcast (typically #1 or #2 hated)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2) not being restricted by bandwidth caps (comcast is 250GB last I checked)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3) improved network performance<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Households with multiple people using laptops, TVs, and phones are pretty<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">common. I run up against my comcast 250GB cap despite having a pretty low end<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">TV (720P, not 1080p let alone 4K) and not having a particularly TV centric<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">household. We also do minimal music streaming.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So a typical household with a few kids/parents around who like tv and/or music:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* 3 hours a day of music from pandora/spotify = 6.5GB<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* 1 hour a day of news/talk shows on standard definition TV = 30.4 GB<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* 1.5 hours a day of Movie on a nicer HD tv = 136 GB<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">* 2 hours a week of Ultra HD/4k = 50 GB<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So that adds up to 220GB which is pretty close to the 250GB cap. A bit of web<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">surfing, youtube, email (especially large attachments) could easily consume the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">rest. Especially since audio/video streams are getting more data intensive over<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">time.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The above might sound like more than you'd expect, but keep in mind that might<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be spread over several users. Even appliances these days can use a fair amount<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of bandwidth. My stereo for instance (a fairly standard Denon receiver)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">consumers a fair amount of data for firmware updates periodically. Spending a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">day hiking and taking pictures can take a fair amount of bandwidth to upload<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">photos. Things like movies or games can easily be over 1GB, and cloud based<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">usage that's today means that the same movie might be downloaded more than once<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">just to allow time shifting for 2 users to watch at different times.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So sure 250GB is plenty for a single person under common use cases, but add some<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">roommates/kids, video hangouts with grandparents, some phone calls or VOIP over<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wifi, and you can easily exceed 250GB. I'm a very technical user with a wide<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">variety of uses for my home internet connection, but my 10 year old daughter<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">uses a roku (easy to use streaming widget for audio/video) and tablet that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">results in consuming WAY more data than I do. My point being that even Joe<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Average Davis resident with roommates or kids could easily consumer more than<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">comcast's data cap.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Davisgig mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Davisgig@list.omsoft.com">Davisgig@list.omsoft.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig">http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>-- <br>Rob Nickerson<br><br>CEO<br>Om Networks<br>UCD Class of 96<br>C: 530-848-3865<br><br>If we have helped you in a positive way, please give us a good<br>recommendation at <a href="http://daviswiki.org">daviswiki.org</a> <<a href="http://daviswiki.org/Omsoft">http://daviswiki.org/Omsoft</a>>, and/or<br><a href="http://yelp.com">yelp.com</a> <<a href="http://www.yelp.com/biz/omsoft-technologies-davis">http://www.yelp.com/biz/omsoft-technologies-davis</a>>.<br>Please like us on Facebook<br><<a href="https://www.facebook.com/omsofttechnologies">https://www.facebook.com/omsofttechnologies</a>">. and put us in your<br>circle at Google+ <<a href="https://plus.google.com/+OMSOFTDavis/posts">https://plus.google.com/+OMSOFTDavis/posts</a>><br>_______________________________________________<br>Davisgig mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Davisgig@list.omsoft.com">Davisgig@list.omsoft.com</a><br>http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; 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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">--</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 22px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="1"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">“Sing the names of the dead who brought us here, who laid the train tracks, raised the bridges, picked the cotton and the lettuce, built brick by brick the glittering edifices they would then keep clean and work inside of.” -- Elizabeth Alexander</span></span></font></p></span></font></div><div>Doug Walter • <a href="mailto:dawalter@dcn.org">dawalter@dcn.org</a> • (home address)</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></span></span>
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