From mattwill at pacbell.net Tue Jul 2 08:19:52 2019 From: mattwill at pacbell.net (Matthews Williams) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 15:19:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Davisgig] Davis Gig Listing in new Community Directory In-Reply-To: <612550481.1205713.1562077837258@mail.yahoo.com> References: <784260EC-B9D5-487B-9243-9D0EA91F7DF1@macattorney.com> <1726785648.1198889.1562077087298@mail.yahoo.com> <612550481.1205713.1562077837258@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1363124403.1238848.1562080792769@mail.yahoo.com> Davis Gig Members, this isn't directly Broadband related, but I believe it is something that most of you will be interested in because of your involvement in community organizations like Davis Gig that enrich the Davis community.? I have attached below a self explanatory e-mail from the local non-partisan group CivEnergy, of which I am a member.? We have created this directory to be a dynamic tool for promoting collaboration between the many organizations in our community ... making it easy for them to link to other organizations Davis Gig is listed (see LINK), but the information there can benefit from any additions we might have.? To browse all the organization listings go to the CivEnergy Community Organizations Directory page.? Thank you fall or your contributions to the richness of Davis life and improving of our Telecommunications, and please feel free to pass this e-mail on to other community organizations you are part of. Matt Williams On Monday, July 1, 2019, 8:10:19 PM PDT, CivEnergy wrote: Hello! CivEnergy is working to create a new, comprehensive community organization listing which is a free resource for residents of Davis and Yolo County. It is being built in a way that allows community members to search for organizations in a number of ways (e.g., organization name, organization category etc.). It will help us all be more interconnected and find like-minded people and activities. Organization listings are free! Major categories include: - Arts, Culture & Humanities - Education - Environment and Animals - Health - Human Services - Public and Societal Benefit - Religion - ...and more are being added. We have started out with a initial set of over 350 listings! Over the next few months we will be asking individual organizations to add (if necessary), edit and manage their listings. To browse the organization listings go to the CivEnergy Community Organizations Directory page. The organizations are listed alphabetically so you can move from page to page. Or you can search the directory for a specific organization by putting in its name. There is also an advanced search which allows you to search for organizations by their tags (i.e., their categories). Please email us at info at civenergy.org to give us feedback on the Community Organization Directory. On Monday, July 1, 2019, 10:12:22 PM PDT, Gene Trapp wrote: I cannot get the UR Browser to download and install. Perhaps it will not work on my MacBook Pro with version 10.13.6? Gene Trapp, Davis > On Jun 30, 2019, at 3:50 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > There is a new, free, Web browser for the Macintosh, and this browser is really interesting. > > Why?? Well in addition to a BUNCH of really great features, such as ad blocking, download acceleration, anti-tracking, protection from malicious Web sites, etc.... > > this browser has a built-in (free) VPN (a rare feature), and it's the only browser currently that automatically scans your downloads for malware!!! > > UR Browser (free) > https://www.ur-browser.com/en-US/ > > The UR Browser is based on Chromium, and it's already 64-bit.? I've been testing it, and so far it's FAST and has good compatibility with various Web sites. > > > ___________________________________________ > Randy B. Singer > Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) > > Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance > http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html > ___________________________________________ > > > > - > About this list > - About this list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at omsoft.com Tue Jul 2 09:37:36 2019 From: rob at omsoft.com (Robert Nickerson) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 09:37:36 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] Davis Gig Listing in new Community Directory In-Reply-To: <1363124403.1238848.1562080792769@mail.yahoo.com> References: <784260EC-B9D5-487B-9243-9D0EA91F7DF1@macattorney.com> <1726785648.1198889.1562077087298@mail.yahoo.com> <612550481.1205713.1562077837258@mail.yahoo.com> <1363124403.1238848.1562080792769@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <109ae0c4-ad3c-1472-54f6-a965a47ab05c@omsoft.com> Hi Thanks Matt, looking forward to your message in regards to meeting with the City Manager about the status of the City Next Steps in regards to community broadband. Take Care RAN On 7/2/2019 8:19 AM, Matthews Williams wrote: > Davis Gig Members, this isn't directly Broadband related, but I > believe it is something that most of you will be interested in because > of your involvement in community organizations like Davis Gig that > enrich the Davis community.? I have attached below a self explanatory > e-mail from the local non-partisan group CivEnergy, of which I am a > member.? We have created this directory to be a dynamic tool for > promoting collaboration between the many organizations in our > community ... making it easy for them to link to other organizations > Davis Gig is listed (see LINK > ), but the information > there can benefit from any additions we might have. To browse all the > organization listings go to the CivEnergy Community Organizations > Directory page > . > > > Thank you fall or your contributions to the richness of Davis life and > improving of our Telecommunications, and please feel free to pass this > e-mail on to other community organizations you are part of. > > Matt Williams > > On Monday, July 1, 2019, 8:10:19 PM PDT, CivEnergy > wrote: > > Hello! > > CivEnergy is working to create a new, comprehensive community > organization listing which is a free resource for residents of Davis > and Yolo County. > > It is being built in a way that allows community members to search for > organizations in a number of ways (e.g., organization name, > organization category etc.). It will help us all be more > interconnected and find like-minded people and activities. > Organization listings are free! > > /Major categories include:/ > > * Arts, Culture & Humanities > * Education > * Environment and Animals > * Health > * Human Services > * Public and Societal Benefit > * Religion > * ...and more are being added. > > We have started out with a initial set of over 350 listings! Over the > next few months we will be asking individual organizations to add (if > necessary), edit and manage their listings. To browse the organization > listings go to the CivEnergy Community Organizations Directory page > . > The organizations are listed alphabetically so you can move from page > to page. Or you can search the directory for a specific organization > by putting in its name. There is also an advanced search which allows > you to search for organizations by their tags (i.e., their categories). > > Please email us at info at civenergy.org to > give us feedback on the Community Organization Directory. > > > On Monday, July 1, 2019, 10:12:22 PM PDT, Gene Trapp > wrote: > > > I cannot get the UR Browser to download and install. Perhaps it will > not work on my MacBook Pro with version 10.13.6? > > Gene Trapp, Davis > > > On Jun 30, 2019, at 3:50 AM, Randy B. Singer > wrote: > > > > There is a new, free, Web browser for the Macintosh, and this > browser is really interesting. > > > > Why?? Well in addition to a BUNCH of really great features, such as > ad blocking, download acceleration, anti-tracking, protection from > malicious Web sites, etc.... > > > > this browser has a built-in (free) VPN (a rare feature), and it's > the only browser currently that automatically scans your downloads for > malware!!! > > > > UR Browser (free) > > https://www.ur-browser.com/en-US/ > > > > The UR Browser is based on Chromium, and it's already 64-bit.? I've > been testing it, and so far it's FAST and has good compatibility with > various Web sites. > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Randy B. Singer > > Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) > > > > Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance > > http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html > > ___________________________________________ > > > > > > > > - > > About this list > > > > - > About this list > > > _______________________________________________ > > Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: > > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start > > Davisgig mailing list > Davisgig at list.omsoft.com > http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig -- Robert Nickerson UCD Class of 1996 CEO, Om Networks cell: 5308483865 www.omsoft.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattwill at pacbell.net Tue Jul 23 11:20:11 2019 From: mattwill at pacbell.net (Matthews Williams) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:20:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Davisgig] Municipal Fiber Update -- Meetings with City Manager Mike Webb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578300333.3367756.1563906012222@mail.yahoo.com> My apologies to everyone for the delay in posting this update.? I had a little life detour that required inserting a Pacemaker for my heart.? The update below has been reviewed with City Manager Mike Webb, who in the spirit of transparency is copied on this e-mail, so that the information reported to the community is mutually agreed to, and contains "no surprises."? If you personally want to contribute to the continuing effort by the City to give serious consideration to municipal fiber, be sure to read all the way to the last paragraph below, or feel free to read that last paragraph first, and then read the rest of the update, with the contents of that last paragraph in mind.? If you have any questions please ask them here, or feel free to call me at 530-297-6237. Thank you for your continuing support of better telecommunications in Davis.? All my best.? Matt JanTroost and Matt Williams met with Mike Webb on Thursday, June 20th.? We started our meeting with a question, What is Mike's plan fordelivering what Council has asked for? Mike?s answer focused on developing a Scope of Work (SOW) for theFinancial and Technical/Staging next steps components.? He expressed confidence in the ability of staffto accomplish that task. He included himself as part of the staff team.?? We discussed the skills and experience neededto accomplish that SOW development task. He believes that Finance Director, Nitish Sharma will be able toput together the Financial portion of the SOW, which will have two key components,funding and financing, plus both revenue and cost input from the Technical/StagingSOW.? We raised the question about the City?s ability to work with LoriRaineri on the financial component.? He clearlystated that there isn't anyone currently on staff who has worked with Lori in thepast.? As a result, there is ?caution of theunknown? on the part of staff regarding Lori.?Mike definitively committed to reaching out to Lori himself to meet withher and get to know her qualifications.? Sincethe meeting, Mike and Diane Parro have met with Lori. Results of that meeting arereported below. | ? Mike sees Diane Parro's role as shepherding the combined SOW process rather than owning either the financial or technical specifics. ? The discussion of the Technical/Staging portion of the SOW began with a review of the technical skills and expertise needed for the more in-depth steps of this next phase.? Mike showed a willingness to reach out to technical experts in the community for those portions of the SOW that IT Director Jason Best doesn't have experience in; however, he made no specific commitment for how to do that. ? We used the graphic to the right as a tool to talk with Mike about the importance of GIS in both portions of the SOW, specifically as a revenue modeling tool. | | We explainedhow the City can model revenue scenarios in a much more informative manner thanhad been done in the Feasibility Study, by loading Business License data into theCity?s GIS system as shape files, and then bringing that data together with theCore Ring and Secondary Ring GIS shape files provided by the consultant as partof the Feasibility Study.? We were very clearthat the City's GIS expert, TJ Crowder is an excellent resource for accomplishingthat GIS work quickly and efficiently. We explainedto Mike that it was a reasonable assumption that each business license locationhas a high probability of being: - The location of a current Internet (and other services) customer, - And that each of those Internet customers is paying monthly fees for that internet access, The initial GIS shape files would not include the level of service, from whom, or how much the customer is paying, but reasonable assumptions about the minimum amount for each customer could be made.? The individual assumptions could then be aggregated along the Core Ring and Secondary Ring routes. We alsomade the Economic Development point that loading City Zoning information intothe GIS system could mean the (A) the GIS system could display theundeveloped/vacant parcels around the city, and possibly even current vacanciesin office space if real estate listing information can be loaded as well, and (B)through a Municipal Fiber deployment avoid repeating painful (and non-responsive)scenarios like the one David Waggoner and Superior Farms went through when dealingwith the monopoly telecommunications providers.?Mike appeared to understand the threat to economic development that poses,most immediately in the case of the current vacancies. Indiscussing the Technical/Phasing portion of the Scope of Work, Mike was/is not opposedto resident feedback at any time on things that the City should consider includingin the Scope(s) of Work.? The direction fromthe City Council is for staff to develop a draft SOW and return to Council withthe draft to ensure we are seeking the right analysis BEFORE finalizing the SOWand putting out an RFP(s). When the draft SOW is published in the City Council agendapacket it will be available for anyone to review and to provide suggestions viaemail or public comment to staff and the City Council.? In the meantime if citizens and otherinterested parties have suggestions for the SOW that they feel should be considered,they are welcome to email staff with those.? There willprobably be multiple RFPs, because there likely will be separate ones for the Financialand the Technical/Phasing components, and in addition, now that staff has met withLori Mike suspects there may be a Part A and a Part B for the fiscal.? Part A being a fairly quick direct pro bono contractwith Lori to help illustrate the basic municipal model to help ?show the math? forhow it would work at a fairly high level and to provide a basis upon which staffcan validate key assumptions with Nitish and City legal counsel. If Part A provesout that a municipal model can work at the conceptual level, then a Part B mighttake things to a higher level of detail and sensitivity testing.?? On the technical/phasingside, a quality assurance review of the RFP will almost surely have to happen becauseof the difference between the currently available inhouse skills and experienceversus the contractually-needed skills and experience the RFP will be describing.? How that review process will happen was not describedby Mike.? It also was not clear what levelof CC approval will be sought. Follow-upwith Mike will be very important to be sure the SOW creation process does not runinto avoidable delays.? Mike noted that aspecific timeline was not directed by Council and that this work will occur in thecontext of other priorities that the City is working on in any given day. The graphicon the first page should be helpful in directing our follow-up efforts.? The dashed lines to the three Possible Components/Partsof the Tech/Staging portion of the SOW are intended to: (1)?? Visually identify parts ofthe SOW creation process that are in need of further description. (2)?? Provide the community witha visual representation of areas where the City?s current resources do not havethe requisite skills and experience to avoid creating a Scope of Work that leavesthe City in a position where there are important unanswered questions either aboutthe technical issues or the phasing issues or both. (3)?? Be a vehicle for followingup with Mike.? If he sees himself as the processowner, as Jan and I strongly encouraged him to be, then having citizen experts providehim with useful/valuable input for that process should be a positive. We wouldlike to suggest that citizen experts, in a coordinated way, try and articulate whatthe actual Components/Parts of the Tech/Staging portion of the SOW are likelyto be.? That would effectively transform thedashed lines into solid lines.? The next stepsprocess will be much clearer if those Tech/Staging components are clearly identified... both for communicating to the general public and for interacting/sharing withMike.? We also think it will help us organizethe information that we provide the process in a more effective/targeted way aswell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1563905552605blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 858194 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ls at whitewavedigital.com Tue Jul 23 13:45:23 2019 From: ls at whitewavedigital.com (Larry Dieterich) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:45:23 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? Message-ID: I?d like to ask this group for some conversation. This is a genuine question borne of ignorance. What are the obstacles or advantages to bringing fiber to the home along the ubiquitous overhead power lines? - Larry From jhframe at dcn.org Tue Jul 23 16:30:53 2019 From: jhframe at dcn.org (Jim Frame) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:30:53 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4882c7a0-6d82-4c0c-8ce2-ce415db47b3b@dcn.org> I have no expertise in this area, but here are some considerations that I believe are germane: 1. Hanging fiber from poles is less expensive than running it through new buried conduit. 2. Hung fiber is much more susceptible to damage than buried fiber, thus maintenance costs are higher. 3. The laws and politics pertaining to pole access is tricky, and the pole owners can make it expensive to gain access by means of their permit process (e.g., permit agreements, site meetings, construction inspections). 4. Despite all of the above, hung fiber works fine unless damaged. On 7/23/2019 1:45 PM, Larry Dieterich wrote: > I?d like to ask this group for some conversation. > > This is a genuine question borne of ignorance. > > What are the obstacles or advantages to bringing fiber to the home along the ubiquitous overhead power lines? > > - Larry > > > _______________________________________________ > > Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: > > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start > > Davisgig mailing list > Davisgig at list.omsoft.com > http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Frame jhframe at dcn.org 530.756.8584 Frame Surveying & Mapping 609 A Street Davis, CA 95616 -----------------------< Davis Community Network >------------------- From davisgig at dabrado.net Tue Jul 23 23:02:53 2019 From: davisgig at dabrado.net (Braden) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:02:53 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20190724060253.a3sfgyfv6i34fgk7@xps13.localdomain> Hi, The BATF's Broadband Feasibility Study Final Report includes some information about why fiber installed along with the overhead powerlines is probably infeasible. I've given a link and quoted it below. - Braden http://documents.cityofdavis.org/Media/CityCouncil/Documents/PDF/CityCouncil/Broadband-Advisory-Task-Force/Documents/Broadband-Feasibility-Study-Final-Report-2018-04-03-reduced.pdf On page 42: Issues with Aerial Fiber There is an extensive aerial and pole network within the city for power and other communications. The use of poles is regulated by both the FCC and the state and rules are generally set up for new providers to be able to access these poles. However, in practice there are many other issues that may make it not feasible to construct an aerial network. 1. Pole Attachment Fees: Anyone that attaches to poles must rent space in the form of attachment fees. 2. Access: Although regulations guarantee access to a pole, timely access may be a large issue. There are regulations regarding time requirements for pole owners to respond to requests and a builder can even build without permission if enough time passes. The main problem is making sure that the pole is in a condition to be attached to which is discussed below. 3. Placement on Poles: There are regulations about where fiber can be placed on poles and how it can be attached. These issues involve ground clearance, separation from other services, separation from power, and attachment to the pole. Field observations noted that much of the aerial infrastructure currently in place does not comply with existing regulations. 4. Make Ready Costs: Many of the poles were not in a condition to be able to attach fiber today. This is due to a number of issues such as pole condition, clearance, tree trimming, etc. This would require extensive work to establish suitable conditions to attach a new fiber network to these poles (also referred to as make ready costs). These costs must be borne entirely by the new provider. There would also be substantial time added to the project as existing providers would need to form new agreements to move up or down the pole to make space for new fiber. These make ready costs would easily offset any savings. 5. Fiber in the Power Space: One way to work around some of the issues with other providers and their attachments is to locate fiber in the power space. Fiber cable is nonconductive and can safely be located near power lines with some additional installation requirements. The downside of this is that any technician who works on the fiber must be certified for high-voltage work. Technicians with this certification are typically paid far more than other similarly trained technicians. The fiber networks around the country located in the power space are typically owned and operated by electric utilities, so they already have technicians and equipment qualified to work in this space. 6. Regulations: Due to California General Order 95, a load study would be required on each pole; this would add significant cost to an aerial network. Additionally, California Rule 20 promotes undergrounding of utilities by requiring providers to annually locate funds to place overhead facilities underground. These are clear efforts by the state to promote undergrounding of utilities. The city has significant public space and right of way areas that would make buried fiber much easier than aerial fiber from a regulations perspective. Field observations quickly determined that the existing poles in Davis have a multitude of issues. The make ready costs alone would drive up costs dramatically. These poles are also owned by others and would likely require leasing fees in addition to make ready costs. Engineering costs would be significant as a Pole Load Study would be required for nearly every pole in the city. These costs would likely place aerial construction at or above the cost of a buried network. The make ready costs, regulations, and higher reliability of buried fiber has led us to plan for an all-buried network. On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 01:45:23PM -0700, Larry Dieterich wrote: > I?d like to ask this group for some conversation. > > This is a genuine question borne of ignorance. > > What are the obstacles or advantages to bringing fiber to the home along > the ubiquitous overhead power lines? > > - Larry From dawalter at dcn.org Wed Jul 24 06:17:07 2019 From: dawalter at dcn.org (Douglas A. Walter) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:17:07 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? In-Reply-To: <20190724060253.a3sfgyfv6i34fgk7@xps13.localdomain> References: <20190724060253.a3sfgyfv6i34fgk7@xps13.localdomain> Message-ID: <17C4C2E2-F890-49A1-9FE8-D568D23A39CD@dcn.org> Thanks, Braden. That was a great response to Larry's salient question. On Jul 23, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Braden via Davisgig wrote: > Hi, > > The BATF's Broadband Feasibility Study Final Report includes some > information about why fiber installed along with the overhead powerlines is > probably infeasible. I've given a link and quoted it below. > > - Braden > > > http://documents.cityofdavis.org/Media/CityCouncil/Documents/PDF/CityCouncil/Broadband-Advisory-Task-Force/Documents/Broadband-Feasibility-Study-Final-Report-2018-04-03-reduced.pdf > > [snip] Doug Walter (home account) dawalter at dcn.org "Wag more, bark less" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yourcurtainsareugly at gmail.com Wed Jul 24 12:28:13 2019 From: yourcurtainsareugly at gmail.com (yourcurtainsareugly) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:28:13 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? Message-ID: "There is an extensive aerial and pole network within the city for power and other communications." That's a surprise to me. Of the places I've lived, Davis seems to have the fewest utility poles. I know there are poles on Pole Line and B street, but otherwise I can't think of any places with poles in areas I frequent, namely north, central, and downtown Davis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhframe at dcn.org Wed Jul 24 13:07:34 2019 From: jhframe at dcn.org (Jim Frame) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:07:34 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32d2b092-51e1-9fcd-6bd5-4c5c4887565d@dcn.org> In central Davis the poles usually run along the rear lot lines (middle of the block) rather than along the streets, which makes them less obvious. On 7/24/2019 12:28 PM, yourcurtainsareugly wrote: > "There is an extensive aerial and pole network within the city for power and > other communications." > > That's a surprise to me. Of the places I've lived, Davis seems to have > the fewest utility poles. I know there are poles on Pole Line and B > street, but otherwise I can't think of any places with poles in areas I > frequent, namely north, central, and downtown Davis. > > _______________________________________________ > > Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: > > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start > > Davisgig mailing list > Davisgig at list.omsoft.com > http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Frame jhframe at dcn.org 530.756.8584 Frame Surveying & Mapping 609 A Street Davis, CA 95616 -----------------------< Davis Community Network >------------------- From davehart at dcn.davis.ca.us Wed Jul 24 13:16:28 2019 From: davehart at dcn.davis.ca.us (Dave Hart) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:16:28 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] Davisgig Digest, Vol 53, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dawalter at dcn.org Wed Jul 24 13:41:42 2019 From: dawalter at dcn.org (Douglas A. Walter) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:41:42 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] Davisgig Digest, Vol 53, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi Dave. To summarize (which your digest will do, in a way), the network of overhead wires is more extensive than several people believe, but the costs to access them are likely quite steep. And that - plus resiliency - makes buried conduit more plausible. (Yes, conduit can flood or break in an earthquake, but poles actually have problem in both those scenarios, too. Plus I've experienced a Davis wind storm that broke a pole-based connection. So, buried fiber is more resilient, IMO.) But I can't resist noting that the areas of Davis with no overhead wires would better be characterized as half-vast. On Jul 24, 2019, at 1:16 PM, Dave Hart wrote: > If I missed it in the responses, I apologize, but while there is a network of overhead wires in some of the older areas of town, there are vast areas of Davis with no overhead wires that would still require underground conduit. So, there's that. > On 7/24/19 12:00 PM, davisgig-request at list.omsoft.com wrote:[snip] Doug Walter (home account) dawalter at dcn.org "Wag more, bark less" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at dcn.org Wed Jul 24 14:23:18 2019 From: steve at dcn.org (Steve McMahon) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:23:18 -0700 Subject: [Davisgig] Davisgig Digest, Vol 53, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: The Broadband Advisory Task Force's feasibility study looked into overhead and advised against it. If I recall correctly, the finding was based on a mixture of considerations including the poor condition of the poles, the load they're already carrying, the higher maintenance costs for fiber on poles, and the likelihood that the incumbents would fight bitterly to keep us off the poles. (Even though they don't own them, the telecomm incumbents have some ability to keep others off by creating various hassles.) I've often wondered, though, that if the City of Davis build a fiber loop, a plucky small operator might extend off it to cherry-pick neighborhoods with better poles. On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 1:49 PM Douglas A. Walter wrote: > Hi Dave. To summarize (which your digest will do, in a way), the network > of overhead wires is more extensive than several people believe, *but* > the costs to access them are likely quite steep. And that - plus resiliency > - makes buried conduit more plausible. (Yes, conduit can flood or break in > an earthquake, but poles actually have problem in both those scenarios, > too. Plus I've experienced a Davis wind storm that broke a pole-based > connection. So, buried fiber is more resilient, IMO.) > > But I can't resist noting that the areas of Davis with no overhead wires > would better be characterized as *half-vast*. > > On Jul 24, 2019, at 1:16 PM, Dave Hart wrote: > > If I missed it in the responses, I apologize, but while there is a network > of overhead wires in some of the older areas of town, there are vast areas > of Davis with no overhead wires that would still require underground > conduit. So, there's that. > On 7/24/19 12:00 PM, davisgig-request at list.omsoft.com wrote:[snip] > > > Doug Walter (home account) > dawalter at dcn.org > "Wag more, bark less" > > _______________________________________________ > > Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: > > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start > > Davisgig mailing list > Davisgig at list.omsoft.com > http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ericthom at mac.com Wed Jul 24 08:53:27 2019 From: ericthom at mac.com (Eric Thompson) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:53:27 -0000 Subject: [Davisgig] what about overhead fiber? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BCBCC64-C417-4F0F-A008-4EC4608C2DE1@mac.com> > ubiquitous? Not where I live Eric > On Jul 23, 2019, at 1:45 PM, Larry Dieterich wrote: > > I?d like to ask this group for some conversation. > > This is a genuine question borne of ignorance. > > What are the obstacles or advantages to bringing fiber to the home along the ubiquitous overhead power lines? > > - Larry > > > _______________________________________________ > > Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: > > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start > > Davisgig mailing list > Davisgig at list.omsoft.com > http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ericthom at mac.com Wed Jul 24 16:23:53 2019 From: ericthom at mac.com (Eric Thompson) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 23:23:53 -0000 Subject: [Davisgig] Davisgig Digest, Vol 53, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <90D6BE93-C2C3-4C4D-A608-9AF1F17403CF@mac.com> This may help eric t A Brief Introduction to Utility Poles CPUC https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/uploadedFiles/CPUC_Public_Website/Content/About_Us/Organization/Divisions/Policy_and_Planning/PPD_Work/PPDUtilityPole.pdf > On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:23 PM, Steve McMahon wrote: > > The Broadband Advisory Task Force's feasibility study looked into overhead and advised against it. If I recall correctly, the finding was based on a mixture of considerations including the poor condition of the poles, the load they're already carrying, the higher maintenance costs for fiber on poles, and the likelihood that the incumbents would fight bitterly to keep us off the poles. (Even though they don't own them, the telecomm incumbents have some ability to keep others off by creating various hassles.) > > I've often wondered, though, that if the City of Davis build a fiber loop, a plucky small operator might extend off it to cherry-pick neighborhoods with better poles. > >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 1:49 PM Douglas A. Walter wrote: >> Hi Dave. To summarize (which your digest will do, in a way), the network of overhead wires is more extensive than several people believe, but the costs to access them are likely quite steep. And that - plus resiliency - makes buried conduit more plausible. (Yes, conduit can flood or break in an earthquake, but poles actually have problem in both those scenarios, too. Plus I've experienced a Davis wind storm that broke a pole-based connection. So, buried fiber is more resilient, IMO.) >> >> But I can't resist noting that the areas of Davis with no overhead wires would better be characterized as half-vast. >> >>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 1:16 PM, Dave Hart wrote: >>> >>> If I missed it in the responses, I apologize, but while there is a network of overhead wires in some of the older areas of town, there are vast areas of Davis with no overhead wires that would still require underground conduit. So, there's that. >>> >>> On 7/24/19 12:00 PM, davisgig-request at list.omsoft.com wrote:[snip] >> >> Doug Walter (home account) >> dawalter at dcn.org >> "Wag more, bark less" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: >> >> http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start >> >> Davisgig mailing list >> Davisgig at list.omsoft.com >> http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig > _______________________________________________ > > Please ref our wiki for details, documents and contacts: > > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~help/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start > > Davisgig mailing list > Davisgig at list.omsoft.com > http://list.omsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/davisgig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PPDUtilityPole.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 864451 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: